Always and Forever | A One Tree Hill Podcast

3.19: I Slept with Someone in Fall Out Boy and All I Got Was This Stupid Song Written About Me

Since this is our episode on One Tree Hill S3E19, I Slept with Someone in Fall Out Boy and All I Got Was This Stupid Song Written About Me, let’s write these show notes in the style of Fall Out Boy song titles. Here we go. This is the one where Hot Uncle Cooper (Michael Trucco) and his biceps return to Tree Hill and so does his sister Deb (Barbara Alyn Woods) and it’s super interesting for both of them because Cooper is apparently dating a 26-year-old model who is house-sitting for her parents but it’s actually the 17-year-old high school student Rachel (Danneel Ackles) which also seemingly drives a wedge between her and Mouth (Lee Norris) who has romantic feelings for her and is defending her against Brooke’s (Sophia Bush) very problematic fat-shaming campaign and also this is interesting for Deb because she comes back only to be freezed out by her girlfriend Karen (Moira Kelly) who is still mad that Deb started the fire which caused Lucas (Chad Michael Murray) to try to save Dan (Paul Johannson) but all is well because Whitey (Barry Corbin) gives her a much-needed pep talk, which helps her better support Lucas after he tells her about his HCM oh and while all of this is happening, Nathan (James Lafferty) and Haley (Bethany Joy Lenz) have to take a test to prove their love for each other for some reason in a random and unnecessary plot point and Peyton (Hilarie Burton Morgan) decides to visit Pete Wentz but in a somewhat shocking twist, she ends up visiting Jake Jaglieski (Bryan Greenberg) and omg it’s so romantic. 
Does anyone even read these show notes? Because that was pretty good content. Anyway, our chat on this episode includes:
The connection to the Fall Out Boy song the episode is named after
Kaitlyn’s Lit Crit for the episode’s opening George Eliot quote, “There is no despair so absolute as that which comes with the first moments of our first great sorrow, when we have not yet known what it is to have suffered and healed, to have despaired and recovered hope.”
Rachel’s issues with self-esteem, Brooke’s revenge plot not equaling the crime, and the episode’s weird overall stance on plastic surgery and beauty
The show’s creator as a stand-in for Mouth and how we reconcile our feelings about Mouth’s character arc through “death of the author”
Referring to characters as unattractive in a script and whether that can be offensive to the real-life actor playing that character
Michael Trucco’s body…of work
Cooper’s character arc and how it influences Lucas
The return of DebRoe
How this episode may be one of the only episodes of One Tree Hill to address race issues…and it’s not the best
Peyton’s romance with Pete from Fall Out Shelter
The epic CODA to Gavin DeGraw’s “We Belong Together”
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Check out our One Tree Hill season 3 Spotify playlist here: https://spoti.fi/3aRKgx2. 
Always and Forever is now on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.

3:20: Everyday Is a Sunday Evening

Hope we can alleviate the Sunday Scaries for you with our discussion on One Tree Hill S3E20: Everyday Is a Sunday Evening, a very strange episode that wants us to think that Lucas (Chad Michael Murray, who did not appear in this episode) is either super important or not important at all for the show (at least those are Jeremy’s thoughts). It’s the playoffs and Nathan (James Lafferty) tries to lead the Ravens to success against the undefeated Oak Lake, despite pressure from the team’s lead player Damien West (Joshua Snyder). Plus Brooke (Sophia Bush) and Mouth (Lee Norris) plot revenge against Rachel (Danneel Ackles) for breaking Mouth’s heart after learning she lied about her age to get with Cooper (Michael Trucco). Plus Peyton (Hilarie Burton Morgan) reunites with Jake (Bryan Greenberg) and Jenny, effectively reigniting the Jeyton fireworks! Plus, Deb (Barbara Alyn Woods) and Nathan issue a restraining order against Dan (Paul Johannson).
In this episode, we discuss:
The title’s namesake, an album by the Blackouts
Fun facts about Chad Michael Murray’s absence, including how he was filming the movie Home of the Brave
The misleading promos that lead you to believe Lucas was going to be hooking up with Rachel and that Dan was going to burn his old house down
Damien West actor Joshua Snyder’s baking brand with his wife, Angela Kinsey (Angela Martin from The Office), and the rabbit hole Jeremy went down to learn about this
Damien’s strange parallel to Dan and how he harasses Haley (Bethany Joy Lenz), in a storyline where she has absolutely no agency
The weird objectification of Rachel
The high camp levels between Brooke and Rachel
Oh remember that fight Brooke and Mouth had a few episodes ago? Don’t worry. This episode forgot about it too!
Whether Rachel actually knew that Cooper was the uncle of one of her classmates
Jake’s reasoning for wanting to go to Savannah at the end of season one despite this new information that Nicki’s parents were also there
Dan actually showing real emotions now that he no longer has power over his family
The epic CODA of "Look After You" by The Fray
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Check out our One Tree Hill season 3 Spotify playlist here: https://spoti.fi/3aRKgx2. 
Always and Forever is now on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.

3:21: Over the Hills and Far Away

It took longer to edit this episode than it took Brooke to make Haley’s wedding dress, so we hope you enjoy it! In One Tree Hill S3E21: Over the Hills and Far Away, Lucas (Chad Michael Murray) and Karen (Moira Kelly) return home to Tree Hill as the gang prepares for Nathan (James Lafferty) and Haley’s (Bethany Joy Lenz) wedding day. And Brooke (Sophia Bush) is somehow able to organize a rehearsal party (with skits!), make TWO wedding dresses, fight with Haley about the dresses, and go shopping with her bff Peyton (Hilarie Burton Morgan). Actually…are Brooke and Peyton still bffs? Jake (Bryan Greenberg) and Peyton break up after the two realize that she still has feelings for Lucas, which Peyton confesses to Brooke. WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT!? In other news, Rachel (Danneel Ackles) is upset that Cooper (Michael Trucco) isn’t returning her phone calls. Also, Marcus (Marcus Coloma) returns and shows the gang that he has changed since the day they were taken hostage in the tutor center. Seeing that a jerk like Marcus could change inspires Haley to invite Dan (Paul Johansson) to the wedding. 
We can’t believe we’re at the penultimate episode of season three! Below are some topics and hot takes from our episode:
It’s a shame that Marcus didn’t get to have more episodes (and the actor would’ve been a much better Felix).
Lucas and Karen’s road trip.
Was Deb (Barbara Alyn Woods) a little too mean to Rachel?
Why does this show love non-linear storytelling so much?
The reasons for Jake and Peyton’s breakup are not good enough reasons to end a relationship (not to mention this storyline feels forced).
Kaitlyn, the pod’s #1 Leyton shipper, also doesn’t like the Jeyton breakup!
One host has future plans for a Naley-style rehearsal party.
The skits at Nathan and Haley’s rehearsal party, which Kaitlyn finds to be awkward and Jeremy finds to be amazing. What do you dear listeners think?
Kaitlyn squeals and unpacks her love for the Leyton clip show toward the end of the episode.
Why was Haley the one who got to go on this arc that ended with her choosing to invite Dan to the wedding? Wouldn’t it have made more sense for Nathan to have gone through this journey?
Who do the princess and the boy represent in Jake’s storybook?
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Check out our One Tree Hill season 3 Spotify playlist here: https://spoti.fi/3aRKgx2. 
Always and Forever is now on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.

3.22: The Show Must Go On

We’re here, folks. It’s the end of the season that got Kaitlyn hooked on One Tree Hill and the end of the season that both of your hosts call their favorite season of the entire series. But our journey through this amazing teen drama is just beginning because S3E22, The Show Must Go On, leaves us with so many cliffhangers as Nathan (James Lafferty) and Haley (Bethany Joy Lenz) head to the altar! Will things ever be the same between Brooke (Sophia Bush), Peyton (Hilarie Burton Morgan) and Lucas (Chad Michael Murray)? Who wrote “murderer” on Dan’s (Paul Johansson) wall? Will Karen (Moira Kelly), who is now pregnant with Keith’s child, ever learn the truth about Dan? Who is pregnant? Will Rachel (Danneel Ackles) and Cooper (Michael Trucco) survive from their limo dropping into the water? Will Nathan? Will Deb (Barbara Alyn Woods) ever stop being so freaking iconic?? Just kidding. We know Deb will always be iconic. So we can rest easy knowing that she will continue being fabulous after confessing to attempted murder.
The episode title’s connection to its namesake, Queen’s “The Show Must Go On,” including how it chronicles Freddie Mercury’s efforts to continue performing as he was dying. Plus, the title may have been a subtle message to send network executives.
Give Sophia Bush an Emmy, already!
The full-circle moment from the third season premiere (Please forgive Jeremy for only mentioning Ellie and Keith as the only deaths in season 3, and completely forgetting about Jimmy!)
Myspace memories. Gen Z, for those who don’t know, Myspace was a website like Twitter and Facebook, but fun.
Our evolving feelings on Brucas, including a shocking confession from Jeremy and a connection to Taylor Swift’s “Out of the Woods” from Kaitlyn.
Brooke’s (some deserved, some not) pettiness toward Peyton.
Does Brooke really love Lucas?
Deb’s iconic version of “Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me.”
Why did Karen tell Dan she was pregnant?
The use of The Snow Patrol song, “Chasing Cars,” and how music supervisor Lindsay Wolfington secured it for this episode before the song’s actual release.
How safe we feel with Naley right now (also how in the heck did they afford this wedding!?)
How Gavin DeGraw’s “More Than Anyone” was selected by viewers to be Nathan and Haley’s first dance song.
The fallout from Cooper and Rachel.
The iconic CODA featuring the Led Zeppelin song, “Babe I'm Gonna Leave You,” and a brief history of the band’s reluctance to license its songs out for TV and film
We may not be returning until September for season four but we couldn’t wait that long to watch S4E1, "The Same Deep Water As You"! On Sunday, June 4 at 2pm EST, we will be hosting a live watch of the episode in our Discord server for our patrons at the $2 level and above! Click here for more information on how to join us and other listeners as we chat about all of the cliffhanger resolutions and so much more!
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Check out our One Tree Hill season 3 Spotify playlist here: https://spoti.fi/3aRKgx2. 
Always and Forever is now on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.

0.06: Join Our One Tree Hill Book Club!

We're excited to announce our first official book club, where we will be chatting about Hilarie Burton Morgan's memoir, "The Rural Diaries"! In our Discord server, we will have a dedicated channel where we can share our thoughts as we read (or re-read) and it will culminate in a video chat on Thursday, Aug. 10 at 7pm EST/4pm PST/ 6pm CST/2pm UK (which means, we can say "We'll be seeing ya" and mean it literally this time!). This club, which is available exclusively to our $5 patrons, will be our first book club as a podcast (and the first book club Jeremy has EVER been in) and we are so excited to talk about all of the Love, Livestock, and Big Life Lessons Down on Mischief Farm with you!
 
We'll be seeing ya (AND you'll be seeing us)!
 
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Check out our One Tree Hill season 3 Spotify playlist here: https://spoti.fi/3aRKgx2. 
Always and Forever is now on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.

0.07: Freaky Friday (2003) — Patreon Clip

Take us away because we’re celebrating the 20th anniversary of Freaky Friday (2003), the iconic Disney flick starring Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan as a mother and daughter who swap bodies and are forced to live in each other’s shoes. Throughout their day, they have their run-ins with school bullies, interesting therapy clientele, and love interests while navigating talk show appearances, wedding rehearsal dinners and band auditions. Buckle in for this episode because it starts off with Kaitlyn and Jeremy swapping bodies, themselves! Plus, since we’re talking about a Disney movie, Jeremy tries not to use any naughty words. The results are interesting.
During our discussion of Freaky Friday (2003), we talk about:
Comparisons to the other versions of Freaky Friday, including the 1972 novel by Mary Rodgers, 1976 original film starring Barbara Harris and Jodie Foster, the 1995 made-for-TV film starring Shelley Long and Gaby Hoffmann, the 2016 stage musical starring Heidi Blickenstaff and Emma Hunton, and the 2018 Disney Channel Original Movie starring Blickenstaff and Cozi Zuehlsdorff.
How the “body-swap genre” works better in TV and film vs. books, plus callbacks to memorable body-swap stories on Charmed and (of course) Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Chad Michael Murray rocking long hair.
Is it ethical for Jake to date Anna? Is Jake even a student??
Problematic depictions about mental health and the use of the word “crazy” in an ableist context.
Racist Asian stereotypes behind Pei Pei (Rosalind Chao), Pei Pei’s mom (Lucille Soong), and the staff of the House of Chang restaurant.
Surprise! The Pink Slit song, “Take Me Away,” performed by Christina Vidal is actually a cover of a song by the Australian alternative punk rock group, Lash.
Justice for Christina Vidal’s one-season wonder Nickelodeon television show, Taina!
Our personal experiences with “earthquakes” (note the giant air quotes!).
More talk about how Gen Z doesn’t use flat sheets, for some reason.
How the Stacey (Julie Gonzalo) character doesn’t really receive her comeuppance...except she does in a deleted scene that we didn’t know about until after we finished recording.
Kaitlyn getting very offended seeing a teacher do a crossword puzzle in the teacher’s lounge.
Jamie Lee Curtis being gender goals.
This movie’s connection to the original Freaky Friday film from 1976.
The Bowling for Soup cover of “...Baby One More Time,” which triggers lots of Britney Spears talk.
That time Chad Michael Murray made out with Jamie Lee Curtis (Quick fact check: Jeremy incorrectly stated that the interview was with Entertainment Tonight. It was actually Busy Tonight!)
Whether this movie really needed Chad Michael Murray’s character.
A potential Freaky Friday 2?
You can listen to the full episode by subscribing at the $5 level over at patreon.com/alwaysothpod.
We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
 
Listen to our previous episodes of Baker Soundstage below:
Scream (2022)
The Notebook
A Cinderella Story
John Tucker Must Die

0.08: Celebrating 20 Years of One Tree Hill: Pilot Episode Audio Commentary

On Sept. 23, 2003, One Tree Hill aired its pilot episode on The WB and we were introduced to rival half brothers Lucas Scott (Chad Michael Murray) and Nathan Scott (James Lafferty) as they compete for a spot on the Tree Hill High basketball team and for the affections of Peyton Sawyer (Hilarie Burton Morgan). We wanted to celebrate the occasion by returning back to the beginning. In this audio commentary, we are rewatching season one, episode one along with YOU, the listener. While listening to our podcast, make sure you have the One Tree Hill pilot episode queued up on your device. Listen to us as we count down and hit the “play” button to watch the episode together. We will then reminisce over times when OTH was trying to be 8 Mile, Moira Kelly was hiding her pregnancy, Haley (Bethany Joy Lenz) was written as a manic pixie dream girl, and the entire cast was BABIES! Plus, we lament the pilot’s lack of Brooke Davis (Sophia Bush) and Gavin DeGraw and get emotional over the sight of Keith Scott (Craig Sheffer) and Jimmy Edwards (Colin Fickes). It’s hard to believe we are celebrating the 20th anniversary of One Tree Hill! We’re so grateful this show inspired nearly two decades of conversations between us both on and off mic. And we’re even more grateful for the listeners who have stuck with us. Whether you have started listening back when this was our pandemic project in mid 2020 or if this is your first episode, THANK YOU! We couldn’t have done it without you!
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Always and Forever is now on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.

4.01: The Same Deep Water As You

Tree Hill is just a place somewhere in the world … maybe it’s a lot like your world. Maybe it’s nothing like it but if you look closer you might see someone like you or someone like Haley James Scott (Bethany Joy Lenz). If you’re married, a senior in high school and not sure if your husband is still alive, then I’d say your world is a lot like Haley’s. THIS IS RELATABLE! OK! We’re back with One Tree Hill S4E1: The Same Deep Water As You! In this episode, someone is pregnant; lives hang in the balance; Deb (Barbara Alyn Woods) is back on drugs; Nathan (James Lafferty) is having some serious PTSD that we’re sure the show will deal with responsibly; Brooke (Sophia Bush) breaks up with Lucas (Chad Michael Murray); Dan (Paul Johannson) is still feeling guilt; Peyton (Hilarie Burton Morgan) has a mysterious half brother; and Rachel (Danneel Ackles) and Skills (Antwon Tanner) are series regulars! Also, this all happens in one day and none of the characters seem a little tired. During our discussion, we talk about:
Jeremy’s hyperfixation on the characters being soooo tan, despite the episode taking place the same day as the third season finale
How the show is on a new network now (“Hey, remember that time my birth mother came to town and her death traumatized me?”)
Whether Lucas is a good writer
Joy’s acting during the opening scene
ACAB (trust us, it comes up)
Brooke’s ability to move once again with zero plans on where to stay
Our evolving thoughts on Brucas’ breakup
Whether Skills could actually join the basketball team and get a scholarship this late in the school year
Deb and Dan’s characterization being inconsistent with last season, and how frustrated we are with Deb’s new direction
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Always and Forever is on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content, including our spoiler-ful mini episodes; our Drama Queens reaction podcast, Royal Review; and our movie podcast, Baker Soundstage. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.

4.02: Things I Forgot at Birth

Cooper (Michael Trucco) is alive and well…but your podcast hosts are not during their discussion of One Tree Hill S4E2, “Things I Forgot at Birth.” Listeners, we are not loving this season so far but we promise our discussion is great! As Brooke (Sophia Bush) celebrates her 18th birthday, Lucas (Chad Michael Murray) tries to win her back. Meanwhile, Dan (Paul Johansson) is rattled with guilt and Deb (Barbara Alyn Woods) is back on drugs again. Also, why does Karen (Moira Kelly) still have a crib after 17 years and what is going on with Rachel’s (Danneel Ackles) attraction to Nathan (James Lafferty)? At least Skills (Antwon Tanner) is getting more screen time.
Our totally deep analysis of the episode’s namesake “Things I Forgot at Birth,” the album by The Absentee.
The fact that this is Cooper’s final episode of the series!
Rachel’s Fatal Attraction-type deal with Nathan and how it would’ve been much more interesting if this was a hero worship syndrome story.
The unnecessary supernatural elements.
The lack of nuance in Deb’s addiction storyline (And how other shows did storylines like this better…and worse).
Peyton opening up to others…but what’s up with Derek?
Lucas fulfilling the Keith role for Skills.
The math not mathing for Brooke’s birthday.
Our best birthdays.
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Always and Forever is on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content, including our spoiler-ful mini episodes; our Drama Queens reaction podcast, Royal Review; and our movie podcast, Baker Soundstage. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.

4.03: Good News for People Who Love Bad News

Big news but keep it on the BLT! We are discussing the 69th episode of One Tree Hill! In S4E3, “Good News for People Who Love Bad News.” Everyone is really mean and annoying in this episode, especially Brooke (Sophia Bush) and Mouth (Lee Norris). As Peyton (Hilarie Burton Morgan) connects with her half brother (Matt Barr), Rachel (Danneel Ackles) reveals that she knows who is pregnant! Meanwhile, Skills (Antwon Tanner) is doing incredibly well on The Ravens despite Whitey (Barry Corbin) keeping him down!
We also discuss:
The episode’s namesake, the album “Good News for People Who Love Bad News” by Modest Mouse.
The pacing being off during the beginning of this season.
Is there bad blood between Haley and Peyton?
A callback to the end of summer beach party, what what!?
Whether Brooke ever fought for Lucas.
Racism and Whitey’s sudden lack of knowledge about white supremacy.
Is Skills replacing Tim?
Skills being the voice of reason while Antwon Tanner gets his coins for being a series regular.
Weird deleted scenes.
How Dan needs to leave Karen alone.
Rachel and Nathan bonding unnecessarily and — again — how this story could’ve been much better.
We promise you there are episodes we like this season!
Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! That’s the easiest way to support us and to help One Tree Hill fans, new and old, find us! We’re Kaitlyn Ilinitch (@MissIReads) and Jeremy Rodriguez (@RodriguezJeremy) and you can find Always and Forever on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @alwaysothpod or email us at alwaysothpod@gmail.com.
Always and Forever is on Patreon! Join our community to gain access to our private Discord server, early episode releases, and bonus content, including our spoiler-ful mini episodes; our Drama Queens reaction podcast, Royal Review; and our movie podcast, Baker Soundstage. Visit patreon.com/alwaysothpod for more information.